What would you do?

"jkm7680" (jkm7680) 02/27/2015 at 22:02 • Filed to: None

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Option 1: Buy a B6 S4 and keep it completely stock.

Option 2: Buy a B5 A4 Avant with the 30v 2.8 and do a complete build. Get it to my exact specifications, G2 Supercharger, tune, everything exactly how I'd imagine it. The advantage to this is that since the car would be cheaper, lots more could be dedicated to actually enhancing the performance and looks of the car.

So Oppo, which of these would you do? I've already got a B5 2.8, but it's a 12v and is it not an Avant.

Funktheduck > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:03

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Option 3. Buy a mazda3

jkm7680 > Funktheduck 02/27/2015 at 22:04

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Nooooooope

Funktheduck > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:06

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Then option 2. Nothing like having a car just how you want it.

jkm7680 > Funktheduck 02/27/2015 at 22:07

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True that, I'm just not sure if I'd be comfortable sinking that much money into something that old though. Like with my current A4.

lonestranger > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:07

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Built B5 Avant, no hesitation.

bob and john > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:07

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hmm.... I think I would do the B6. V8 is awersome, and the B5 is already going to be a PITA to maintain before you add after market stuff

jkm7680 > bob and john 02/27/2015 at 22:08

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Meh, I know somebody with a heavily modded Passat with the 2.8. Oil leak, nothing else.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:15

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Option 3: Throw all of your money into a fire. Because that will have more combustion than either of those engines. Fuck the B5 Platform.

jkm7680 > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/27/2015 at 22:17

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You don't have to be a dick, you know that right?

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:18

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Sorry dude, it's just my immediate flashback to the B5. That car burned, stranded, and almost murdered me. The B6 I have actually been told might be much better. And to be fair as well. I had a 1.8T B5, which is apparently known to be a nightmare. I apologize for being a dick.

Funktheduck > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:20

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May be true but I spent more than I had to and bought new. More reasons than just having a new car but I got what I want and I'm super happy.

jkm7680 > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/27/2015 at 22:23

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The 1.8T from the B5 was a mixed bag from what I've heard. People that are looking for performance modifications mainly go to those, so they have an excuse for it breaking down. I went for the V6 for the sake of reliability and it's doing just fine. The only thing I don't like about my 12v is that there is no aftermarket performance available. It's got 150k, runs fine, drives fine and has only needed standard maintenance. Nothing funky and nothing out of the ordinary.

jkm7680 > Funktheduck 02/27/2015 at 22:24

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Also true, I'd rather just pay for something in cash instead of payments and work with it as I go out of pocket. That way, no payments and a car that I could effortlessly modify.

Tohru > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 22:26

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Jay Lauer > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 23:03

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None. I'd buy an STI. or an Evo. or a Corvette. or a CTS-V. or a GTO. or even a BMW. Just something more reliable.

B5 S4's pop turbos and timing belts.

B6's timing chain is on the back of the motor, for super each access.

PushToStart > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 23:10

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Hmmm, that's a toughie. On one hand, building a car to your exact desired spec would be highly enjoyable, and the end result would be optimal for you. On the other hand, you'd also be taking on a lot more work (which takes time, obviously) and also, it could be harder to sell later on (for a fair price, at least) if potential buyers aren't looking for a car built up to your spec.

jkm7680 > PushToStart 02/27/2015 at 23:17

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If I were going to do that, then sell it later on, I'd probably take it back to Oem status, sell the aftermarket parts and possibly leave a couple of goodies for the next owner.

PushToStart > jkm7680 02/27/2015 at 23:24

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Yeah, that would probably be the best option to deal with the resale of the modified car, although you'd still risk losing money and it might be more of a pain.

Basically just take into account the pros/cons and risk factors with each situation, and determine roughly how long you would want to keep the car. That'll help you make a decision. :P

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 09:15

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I'm going to go against the grain here.

Go with the B6. What's the worst that can happen? A little timing chain idiocy (that doesn't affect every engine)? Yes, properly fixing the motor in that case is hideously expensive, but you aren't guaranteed that it will even affect the motor you buy (and the odds are in your favor of having a good one).

If you build a 30v 2.8 motor, then you have a lot more components that are being added and changed, and getting those all to work properly can be considered a time and money sink as well.

Also, look at the benefit of a B6 S4. 4.2L V8...

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 09:17

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That's my argument with the B6 S4. The timing chain thing doesn't effect every single B6 and apparently everybody now thinks it's deathly unreliable.

The insurance for a B5 Avant would be cheaper though and the insurance company never has to know about all the tinkering going on to the engine.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 09:28

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I'm currently fighting today's "Problem du jour" with my B5, and that is a stuck piston on the left front caliper. That type of problem you could face with either option.

However, with an engine build, unless you are willing to tear it completely down and build it up to handle the appropriate power levels ($$$), there is always going to be the question mark of what happens when a part lets go. What else will it take out along the way?

I only ask this question if I'm going to be changing aspiration types or doing major changes to the engine (i.e. single turbo conversion on the B5 S4, which I've already ruled out doing. I'd likely go with K04s and RS4 intake path and fuel injectors, or frankenturbos in the K03 housings).

I feel that doing nothing to it, and enjoying it as it was built means more years of fun than starting to tinker with something.

However, if you have other cars to drive and get you to work, and you have extra garage space for a project, and your S/O is fine with a project, then go the project route.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/28/2015 at 09:31

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I had a 1.8T B5, which is apparently known to be a nightmare.

Clearly you haven't met the nightmare of the 2.7T engine in the S4. At least with the 1.8T, there was at least a prayer of being able to access certain components. 2.7T? Audi AG says "Yank the motor to fix that..."

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 09:40

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Think you might need a VW/Audi piston retractor for that issue.

For the S/C build, I'm pretty sure I'd only need a snub mount to have that together. Sway bars and coilovers would be needed though. I've already got some on my '97 so I can just swap back to stockers and take those off.

As far as switching to possibly switching to single turbo conversions, you could just swap to an early 4.2. I'm not too sure about the B5 S4, but for the A4 you only need a new flywheel (From the 30v) and be able to create your own engine mounts. Frankenturbo makes good products, but they are on the slightly expensive side. A word of advice is to never trust a website called Motodyne. They offer "cheap" performance parts for VAG products, but it's all one massive scam. Also, since it's a track car you should look into meth injection kits. ECS has one for the 2.7tt S4.

I do have space, but I do not have extra cars to drive around. I can easily survive without a car for a while probably though, or just keep two B5s like a total weirdo haha.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 09:49

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You need the retractor for the rear calipers as they are rotating pistons. On the front Lucas HP2s, those are non rotating, so a C clamp is sufficient (that worked the last time I did the brakes)

But it's a 15 year old car, so I'm not shocked that the seals and such need work, and that they should be rebuilt.

If I did go to a 4.2 V8, the one thing this would allow for is removing the SMICs, which means I could get some pressurized bumper air, and be able to duct it to the front brakes to cool them.

There was a guy at Barber yesterday who was tracking an allroad (!). Would it be a surprise that the front rotor split in two pieces: the hat and the friction disc? So I had to help him remove the lower caliper 21mm mount bolt (He and others were trying to remove the slide pins, which require triple squares, but you don't need to do that for HP2s)

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 09:55

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Ah, that should do it.

Jeez, I would not track an Allroad, haha. If I did end up with a B5 Avant, I'd have to go with a Porsche front brake upgrade and leave the rears stock with better pads or something.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 10:02

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At least I was able to use my track timer.

1:55.0 around Barber.

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 10:03

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Have any video? Because that would be awesome.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 10:27

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No (I forgot to bring it with this time), but I have the telemetry from the GPS. Lap 1 was a parade lap at 50MPH, so I didn't include it here.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Supposedly the lap timer app is supposed to take video too, but I literally bought it that morning, and wasn't able to get it to work. :( I do have video from last year which I could upload on Vimeo, but that was in the BMW and not as quick (I suspect).

The chief instructor though, did make an interesting comment as I was helping him unload his Evo 8 MR off his trailer. See, I'm in the Intermediate group (affectionately called the cowboy group, because of the loons who are out there who don't really know what they are doing), but he immediately asked "Why are you still there?"

After my sessions, he walked over to me and told me that he would do a checkride so I could drive with the NASA/IMSA/SCCA competition license holders.

I need to raise the rear suspension (I have negative rake right now with the current setup, so it plows like a boat), and sort the brakes out, and then it should be good until I'm ready to take it on a crash diet.

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 10:30

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Haha, you're running coilovers right?

Pretty cool lap timer though!

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 10:37

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It's got a set of H&R coilovers, but they've been on the car for over 60K+ miles. However, the last time I tried adjusting the suspension with my friend, there was a lot of corrosion from those miles in the Salt Belt (Car is from Chicago).

So I've got to break out the Kroil to loosen the adjusting ring for the lower spring seat on the rear coilovers to see if I can raise them, or else I'll have to replace those.

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 10:46

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That's a good brand, they should be pretty high quality. Just make sure that there is anti seize compound or whatever it's called (That silver crap) on them.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 10:58

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They are, but they aren't adjustable beyond spring preload (and indirectly ride height).

I'm considering this instead. http://performanceshock.com/index.php?main…

This is just the two way adjustable version, but they can be modified to three or four way adjustable as the future might require.

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 11:14

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Just make sure to use only reputable brands to avoid catastrophic failure, haha.

I've never heard of that brand, but the price scares me deeply.

Luke Murphy > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 12:28

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I like the idea of having it just how you want it but it will take a lot of mods. I had and A6 avant with that engine and it was pretty gutless. I did really love that car though.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 13:10

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Wow. Yeah, mine had less that 100k, and was a nightmare. No accidents, no anything

jkm7680 > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/28/2015 at 13:29

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If you ever want a reliable B5, the 2.8 is the way to go! It may not be fast, but it sure is a good car to have around.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 13:31

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Since in effect it is an Ohlins TTX shock and an Eibach ERS spring, the components are name brand.

Also why it tends to be $5K+

Plus I have an excuse to stay longer on a business trip to NorCal. Personal product inspection and all that. Plus Sonoma Raceway.

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/28/2015 at 13:35

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Haha, what is your tow vehicle that you use for it?

But it is a common saying that expensive parts do usually pay off. That's why I'd love to PES charge a 30v Avant.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 13:42

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I use my 95 F-150 to tow the S4 around to the tracks in the Southeast. So far, I've driven it at Daytona (Rolex 24 Hour configuration), Road Atlanta, and now Barber Motorsports Park.

Right now I'm also looking at grabbing parts to do the timing belt, because God knows the last time it was changed.

And the suspension (because massive negative rake, and that means harder to control)

And the brakes.

It was a basket case when I bought it, but I'll eventually figure out how to build a basket :)

BenLikesCars > jkm7680 02/28/2015 at 16:07

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I'd get the 200 Quattro Avant that you submitted to the 1990s ebay challenge for only five grand, those come with a mash note from Ferdinand Piech and a peerage with your local Audi club.

jkm7680 > BenLikesCars 02/28/2015 at 16:15

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Believe me, I would if it weren't on the other side of the Country. If it was within 200 miles of the East Coast, I'd strongly consider it.